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Forum: The Rules

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2010-03-30 07:16:02 Marko Pellikka (pellikka)
RE: Kurnik server time?
# 4735
Yes Michał, to be precise the time on summer period is CEST (S for summer). On winter period CET.
2010-03-29 21:02:45 Michał Żukowski (zukolepl)
RE: Kurnik server time?
# 4733
http://www.world-time-zones.org/zones/central-european-summer-time.htm
2010-03-29 12:36:22 Marko Pellikka (pellikka)
RE: Kurnik server time?
# 4726
I propose adding to rules that the official time is CET and wouldn't hurt to have some kind of clock implemented on this website :)
2010-03-29 11:51:34 Igor Eged (ancientdragon)
RE: Kurnik server time?
# 4724
Yes, you are right here. Let's define default kurnik time as time which appears when you select polish language :)
2010-03-28 13:55:50 Marko Pellikka (pellikka)
RE: Kurnik server time?
# 4710
But that time there is localized according to user settings, or is there something I'm missing?
2010-03-28 13:52:22 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: Kurnik server time?
# 4709
Current server time is at the bottom of page (under rooms etc.) of every game.

Kind regards,

Angst
2010-03-28 12:28:10 Marko Pellikka (pellikka)
Kurnik server time?
# 4708
Just to point out that there is no such thing as Kurnik server time anymore.. or are there?
2010-03-22 21:02:52 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
RE: Penalty points-teams - 6. round
# 4689
Sorry, I have forgot. According to decision of committee:
5pp..Ohhjasiu(OH YEAH sqad) -for his bad behaviour in the match with Trojan Horse
2010-03-21 18:54:49 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Summary of pp after 6th round
# 4683
Sum of walkovers (3 walkovers=disqualification from the competition) :

1 w.o. - infinite llamas
2 w.o. - HanAsparuBG
3 w.o. - Attack_Team !!

Penalty points of the teams (30 and more pp = w.o. in the next round):

18pp..infinite llamas
11pp..Team Mollo
6pp..Outtogetyou
5pp..Woodenheads
4pp..Russian Alert
2pp..HanAsparuBG, Dark Team, Barbe Cube, Company,Czech Layback B, SUPERTEAM_
1pp..Klub Rzeszow
2010-03-21 18:54:06 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Reducing of pp after 6th round
# 4682
If a team and all its players don't get any pp in the next 3 real rounds (not walkover or 'bye'), their penalty points will reduce for 2 penalty points for every next round.

-2pp..Barbe Cube, Company, Klub Rzeszow, Luffarna
2010-03-21 16:46:47 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Penalty points-teams - 6. round
# 4681
9.5 captain didn't approve the result

5pp..Team Mollo

7.5 games by w.o. (-/+)

2pp..Dark Team
2010-02-19 16:44:53 Madli Mirme (madli)
RE: to the new team members
# 4604
Thanks!
2010-02-15 13:19:01 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Summary of pp after 5th round
# 4579
Sum of walkovers (3 walkovers=disqualification from the competition) :

2 w.o. - Attack_Team
1 w.o. - HanAsparuBG, infinite llamas

Penalty points of the teams (30 and more pp = w.o. in the next round):

32pp..HanAsparuBG
18pp..infinite llamas
15pp..Attack_Team
6pp..Outtogetyou, Team Mollo
5pp..Woodenheads
4pp..Barbe Cube, Company, Russian Alert
3pp..Klub Rzeszow
2pp..Czech Layback B, Luffarna, SUPERTEAM_
2010-02-15 13:18:39 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Reducing of pp after 5th round
# 4578
If a team and all its players don't get any pp in the next 3 real rounds (not walkover or 'bye'), their penalty points will reduce for 2 penalty points for every next round.

-2pp..Easy Riders, Klub Rzeszow, Luffarna, Team Mollo
2010-02-15 12:49:25 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Penalty points-teams - 5. round
# 4577
9.5 captain didn't approve the result

5pp..Woodenheads

5.2 playing with 3 players the whole match

5pp..HanAsparuhBG

7.5 games by w.o. (-/+)

8pp..HanAsparuhBG
4pp..Outtogetyou
2pp..SUPERTEAM_
2010-02-15 08:01:16 Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)
RE: to the new team members
# 4566
This rule is necessary due to (annual) statistics. Esteurogomoku and Eurogomoku are not the same for a progremme. He can change the nick for the next EL.
Regards, jezek
2010-02-13 00:12:43 Madli Mirme (madli)
RE: to the new team members
# 4562
Hi,
I'm wondering about the second part of rule 2.6. A player can't change his/her Kurnik nick when changing teams. Why is that necessary, if EL page user stays the same?
Regards, Madli
2010-02-08 14:14:57 Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)
to the new team members
# 4556
- Esteurogomoku, you cant play with this nick, but with the old one (rule 2.6). Please, change it.
- Xsystem, please write your whole surname and add your location (rule 2.5)
- Lef40, add your location
- Bbbsladenkaya, please write your real surname (rule 2.5)
2010-01-30 13:14:01 Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)
3-days rule
# 4538
Some teams »break/broke« the 3-days rule.

I think the rules 6.1 - 6.10 are clear. Committee agrees with exception, if both captains agree with a new date.

Both captains can harmonize a new date on the EL forum, by phone, email... When a problem happened (one team doesn't come at the new date/time) then a new date is valid only if both captains confirmed it on the public EL forum (as the captains of BC and Outsiders in the 4th round). This new date can be canceled only if both captains agree, otherwise not. A new date should be announced on the EL forum, because EL is public competition.

#4534 MR NG – Luffarna
I dont know if the new time is agreed. If yes, no problem. If no, the match should start at 19.00 (+ 10 min waiting – rule 7.1). Other(missing) players can join whenever during the match (rule 7.4). If Luffarna wants to wait 1 hour – no problem.

# 4535 Superteam - CZL B
Dabija, you neednt write anything on the forum, your withdraw is OK (rule 6.8) and you can just wait if a captain of CZLB accepts it or not.

I would like to say, that this is my opinion only, which I will tell in the discusion if Committee has to solve a controversial case. Maybe we will include a new rule for such cases for the next season, if there are more cases about »breaking« 3-days rule.
2010-01-25 19:32:57 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Summary of pp after 4. round
# 4519
Sum of walkovers (3 walkovers=disqualification from the competition) :

1 w.o. - HanAsparuBG, Attack_Team

Penalty points of the teams (30 and more pp = w.o. in the next round):

48pp..infinite llamas
15pp..Attack_Team
19pp..HanAsparuBG
8pp..Team Mollo
5pp..Klub Rzeszow
4pp..Barbe Cube, Luffarna, Company, Russian Alert
2pp..Easy Riders, Outtogetyou, Czech Layback B
2010-01-25 19:31:47 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Penalty points-teams - 4. round
# 4518
5.2 playing with 2 players the whole match

10pp...infinite llamas

7.5 games by w.o. (-/+)

16pp...infinite llamas
6pp...HanAsparuhBG
4pp...Russian Alert
2pp...Czech Layback B
2010-01-08 21:42:36 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Summary of pp after 3. round
# 4465
Sum of walkovers (3 walkovers=disqualification from the competition) :

1 w.o. - HanAsparuBG

Penalty points of the teams (30 pp = one w.o.):

22pp..infinite llamas
15pp..Attack_Team
13pp..HanAsparuBG
8pp..Team Mollo
5pp..Klub Rzeszow
4pp..Barbe Cube, Luffarna, Company
2pp..Easy Riders, Outtogetyou

Penalty points of players(15+ pp - the player cannot play in the coming round)

5pp..ws_suczkins, atsnieznyy (Attack_Team), bcattila (Barbe Cube)
2010-01-08 21:37:07 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Penalty points-teams - third round
# 4464
9.5 captain didn't approve the result

5pp...Attack_Team

5.2 playing with 3 players the whole match

5pp...HanAsparuhBG

7.5 games by w.o. (-/+)

8pp...HanAsparuhBG
5pp...infinite llamas
2pp...Attack_Team
2009-12-30 23:06:35 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: Gratitude
# 4434
Dear Barbe Cube Friends,

I really regret that we need to discuss some issues in quite emotional way.

However, no-one could promise that problematic things won’t happen even in such familial environment as great gomoku world.

I feel obliged to respond, as the member of EL Committee. Let’s go to the meritum.

To Gergo:

“First thank you for giving us PPs without reasons according to any rules. (Okay, I have already known about the personal PPs after my teammate, Attila asked this here.)”

You can see the reason for giving the PPs on your team site. There shall be always included short explanation (the rule used).

“Secondly thanks that you had answered to my and my teammate's questions which I asked on 14th Dec in this forum so we could be calm not to get any PPs.”

Honestly, I didn’t feel we should respond as your only post I found, dated 14th of December, was addressed to Alicecooper. Moreover, it is hard to find there concrete questions, except “too many times” definition request (I will reply it below) and “hun” players description (I suppose that this question shall Alicecooper be asked during your match).

“Thirdly, I'm very grateful that you have incontestable evidences that we played against the rules. It seems that one whistle is enough to give PPs to anyone. (Sorry if you had at least 3-4 referees in the room when we played who saw our felony.)”

There was one of the EL Committee members present. Probably one whistle is not too much, however we had official information from the opponent’s captain on EL Forum and confirmation of Attila’s graying from Committee member. For me, personally, the word of my colleague from Committee is equal to the undisputable proof. With no trust between us I can’t imagine the work in EL Committee.

“Fourthly, I pay a tribute to you that you could announce it right on the date when we're about to play a match, it had embarrassed us not in the least, but this is the slightest thing in this case.”

I really, really hope that you don’t believe it wasn’t coincidence. Monika explained the reasons and I am quite sure that next time she will try to check if the communication time won’t be embarrassing to anyone.

Please remember that our work in the Committee is not our regular job. We use our free time for common pleasure and fun. We don’t expect your praise or admiration, however it would be really nice not to read such ironical statements too often.

To Attila:

“If my pps are deserved”

I think it is beyond any doubt, even from your perspective, as you didn’t invalidate the fact of your multiple graying. The Rules are quite precise in this area. Making the access to play this season, you accepted them.
We decided to give you 5 PPs (from maximum 15 PPs possible), as it was your first punishment (however, it was also not the first time we heard about you graying).

“- Are there referees in every single match to check if players play according to the rules?”

I really doubt we are. We are trying to be on as many matches as possible. However, as long as teams decide on match date, the situation won’t change significantly. On other hand I suppose everyone agree that the better is to play with no referee than have 5 referees and no players. Consequently, I think current rule of match date agreeing is much better.

“- What amount of blinking means too much? ... Cause at least once, everyone blinks.”

It is very hard to define it precisely. With no doubt one time is not too much. I would define it as: “often enough to be clearly visible and easily remembered”. However, it is still my personal definition.

“- Why didn't the other players, who were blinking as much as me, got pps? f.e. roy..and I could write an endless list..”

There was no other accusation on EL Forum. Our member didn’t see any other player blinking as frequently as you.

“- Is it really enough that some captain quotes our dialogue on the forum to give me pps? (Cause I dont remember any referee who were watching me playing)”

As I’ve written above we had official information confirmed by the EL Committee member.

“Why did the committee decide to make this rule? In my opinion, firstly, in order to avoid cheating. -> If so, then it's not a good idea cause its sooo easy to cheat whitout blinking..And giving pps cause of blinking without cheating should be quite a dumb idea.
Secondly, because it disturbs the opponent maybe?! If so, then why don't we have same rule in live tournaments? Cause it's totally the same as leaving my board in live.
Who cares about blinking, I really don't understand... Why don't we and the COMMITTEE concentrate to the games instead of giving pps for nonsense things?? I ask someone to explain or persuade me why blinking means "unfair gaming".”

Now we come to the second part of the discussion, that I find much more controversial. Your case is discussed also on Polish forum and we have many different opinions. Please allow me to share with my point of view.

You fortunately made it easier, as you were able to reply yourself what was the most probable genesis of this rule. Currently, it is quite obvious that only really dumb cheaters are graying during their games. However, the situation was not the same few years ago. It has been changing with passing time, but the effect is that nowadays graying is still not well seen as it is associated with no fair-play behaviour. From my perspective it is less important factor. Much worse seems to me the fact of not fully focusing on your game that could be treated by your opponent as the lack of respect. It becomes more crucial in situation when the difference between player’s skills is bigger. Less experienced player can easily go to the ideas like eg.: “He is so much better… He even doesn’t need to look at the table to easily beat me… Oh, I am terribly weak player… It is probably highest time to find another hobby…” or something similar... I probably don’t need to explain that it could be also disturbing strictly visually for some players. Summarizing, I really don’t find continuous blinking as fully in accordance with the fair play spirit.

Moreover, you compare graying to leaving the table during the live games. I can’t agree with you. Real live games are played at least a little bit longer than ten minutes usually. It is quite obvious that you need to drink, eat, straighten up yourself or go to the toilet. I believe you need sometimes to do similarly also while you are playing on-line game. However, is it really needed to leave the game window in such a situation?

You have the right to your own opinion with no dispute. However, I hope that my clarification will be helpful to you to understand the attitude of other players who can understand fair-play in quite (or maybe a little) different way.

If you have any other doubts or questions, please feel free to ask. I’ll try to reply on first occasion.

Kind regards,

Piotr Małowiejski, EL Committee member
2009-12-30 20:38:47 Attila Demján (bcattila)
RE: Gratitude
# 4432
I completly agree with Gergo and samely don't understand the way of punishment which I got.

If my pps are deserved and my bad behaviour was checked by a referee then I am wondering the following things:

- Are there referees in every single match to check if players play according to the rules?

- What amount of blinking means too much? ... Cause at least once, everyone blinks.

- Why didn't the other players, who were blinking as much as me, got pps? f.e. roy..and I could write an endless list..

- Is it really enough that some captain quotes our dialogue on the forum to give me pps? (Cause I dont remember any referee who were watching me playing)

- And for last my opinion about this rule:

Why did the committee decide to make this rule? In my opinion, firstly, in order to avoid cheating. -> If so, then it's not a good idea cause its sooo easy to cheat whitout blinking..And giving pps cause of blinking without cheating should be quite a dumb idea.
Secondly, because it disturbs the opponent maybe?! If so, then why don't we have same rule in live tournaments? Cause it's totally the same as leaving my board in live.
Who cares about blinking, I really don't understand... Why don't we and the COMMITTEE concentrate to the games instead of giving pps for nonsense things?? I ask someone to explain or persuade me why blinking means "unfair gaming".

Please dear referees, answer my questions.

Thanks and happy new year!
2009-12-29 23:17:26 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
RE: Gratitude
# 4428
-"Fourthly, I pay a tribute to you that you could announce it right on the date when we're about to play a match, it had embarrassed us not in the least, but this is the slightest thing in this case."
Committee is not mixed up with this announcement. I was waiting for all final decision for to count pp of second round and today I finally had time for to summarize it. There is no intention in it. I didn´t notice, that you play the match today. I am busy because of Christmas and studying, just counting pp and don´t monitoring matches :(
2009-12-29 22:36:34 Gergő Tóth (bcgergo)
Gratitude
# 4427
Dear Committee!

First thank you for giving us PPs without reasons according to any rules. (Okay, I have already known about the personal PPs after my teammate, Attila asked this here.)

Secondly thanks that you had answered to my and my teammate's questions which I asked on 14th Dec in this forum so we could be calm not to get any PPs.

Thirdly, I'm very grateful that you have incontestable evidences that we played against the rules. It seems that one whistle is enough to give PPs to anyone. (Sorry if you had at least 3-4 referees in the room when we played who saw our felony.) I guess checking every games which are being played is a hard work, I have my highest regard for you!

Fourthly, I pay a tribute to you that you could announce it right on the date when we're about to play a match, it had embarrassed us not in the least, but this is the slightest thing in this case.

Anyway, "Decision forum" is locked, so I took the liberty of writing here.

One of Your greatest admire, Gergő Tóth
2009-12-29 17:27:43 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
RE: Summary of pp after 2. round
# 4426
Hi,
It´s your personally penalization according to the decision of committee, because you were graying too many time in the match BC-DAW.
All the final decision should be put to the "Decision forum" in near future.
2009-12-29 15:46:02 Attila Demján (bcattila)
RE: Summary of pp after 2. round
# 4425
Hi!

I would like to ask why did my team and personally me got penalty points?

Thanks
2009-12-29 12:43:46 Monika Kolouchová (olsava)
Summary of pp after 2. round
# 4424
Sum of walkovers (3 walkovers=disqualification from the competition) :
1 w.o. - HanAsparuBG

Penalty points of the teams (30 pp = one w.o.):
17pp..infinite llamas
8pp..Attack_Team, Team Mollo
5pp..Klub Rzeszow
4pp..Barbe Cube, Luffarna, Company
2pp..Easy Riders, Outtogetyou

Penalty points of players(15+ pp - the player cannot play in the coming round)
5pp..ws_suczkins, atsnieznyy (Attack_Team), bcattila (Barbe Cube)
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